How Artists Can Overcome Money Mindset Blocks

Antrese Wood: Hello, my friends, and welcome to another episode of the Savvy Painter Podcast. You are listening to part three of a four-part series from a live event. If you are new here, welcome. My name is Antrese Wood, and I am the host of the Savvy Painter Podcast, and I'm so happy that you have found us. If you've been listening for a while, welcome back.

Okay, so in this episode, we are going to talk about money. I think money is one of the best roads to growth for artists because we tend to have a lot of hangups about it. Most of them, we don't even know that they're there. Of course, I did a worksheet for this. Highly recommend that you do it. You will find it in the show notes for this episode, and it is transformational, I promise. Okay, let's dive in.

So today, we are going to talk about artists and money. We're going to take a look at some of our thoughts about money, and how those thoughts impact our art practice. I believe that there is major transformation available to us when we bring awareness to how we think about money, finances, and pricing, and how that impacts our practice. It's a big topic, I know. So let's just jump right in.

Like I said, today's topic is money. Oscar Wilde supposedly said that when bankers get together, they discuss art, and when artists get together for dinner, they discuss money, and that feels about right. It is a topic that we talk about often, so today I'm going to offer you what might be a different way of thinking about money as it relates to your art. We're going to talk about how it's created, what gets in the way, and how to think differently about it so that you are open to receiving more of it, if that is what you want.

Judging by the show of hands, I think that's a popular topic. So understanding what we think about money and how it impacts our art practice is essential for you to create not just a sustainable art practice, but an abundant one. I was raised in a house with six brothers and sisters by a single mom. There were a lot of things that were said and unsaid about money.

How we were raised and our parents' views on money was our introduction to the subject. Then we picked up more thoughts and beliefs in school from our friends, from our friends' parents when we visited their houses, from our teachers, our neighbors, the area we grew up in. Then we started having some experience spending money and there were thoughts about that. Then eventually we started earning our own money and all along the way, we created and collected beliefs about money.

All of those beliefs shape what we do and how we behave around money. Those beliefs that we have around money create the results that we have today. Some of the thoughts and beliefs that I grew up with—this was a phrase I heard all the time. How many of you have heard this one from your parents or said it yourselves?—Money doesn't grow on trees, you know? I heard that all the time. It doesn't grow on trees.

Money is everywhere, meaning, you see signs of it everywhere. Money is a zero-sum game, meaning if I take money, somebody loses money. If I have money, somebody doesn't have money. Another thing that was definitely present in my house is there's never enough. Then another one, this was more of an unspoken one, the things that I heard around the house about people who had money was that money corrupts people. Money is a corrupting force.

Those beliefs that were running in the background of my daily life, that impacted how I was around money, how I thought about spending money, I felt so guilty all the time, spending any amount of money on myself, didn't matter what it was or what it was for, I would always cringe and be like, “I don't know, sh*t,” and it would be a big deal, which is really interesting when I finally caught on to that.

We also have a lot of thoughts and beliefs around money and arts, rich people buy art. How many of you have thought that or heard that it's rich people who buy art? If you think about that, just consider it for a moment, if you really believe that it's rich people who buy art, how does that impact your thoughts about your collectors, connecting with them, finding them? How do you know who these rich people are?

It's not like people run around with labels on their shirts that say, “This is my net worth. Also, this is what rich means.” That's another interesting thing to think about with that is we all probably have very different definitions of what rich means. There's a lot baked into just the statement of rich people buy art.

Another comment that I hear a lot in the art world and I have said it myself at one point in my life is “I don't paint for money. There's no money in art.” That's another really common one. There's no money in art. The way that you think about money is what is going to determine how much you have.

For that reason, it's super, super helpful to separate out the facts about money from the stories that we tell ourselves about it. This helps us see money for what it actually is. Then, once you have that, then each one of you individually, you get to decide how you want to think about money with regards to your art.

When we are confused, we act confused. When we feel confused, our actions are confused. If you say to yourself, "I want to make money with my art," and at the same time, you have the belief that you can't make money with your art, what are the actions that you take? What do you do?

Or if you say, “I want to make money with my art,” and at the same time you have the belief that making money is bad, that taking money from somebody else means that you're taking something from them and you don't want to be a bad person, we're just going to assume that, if you believe that taking money from somebody else takes something away from them, it robs them of something and you don't want to be a bad person, you have what's called cognitive dissonance.

There's a conflict happening in your brain and the amount of money that you are making right now is the result of the conflicts that we have in our brains about money and art. How many of you expected me to say that? Everybody in Growth Studio is like, "Oh yeah, I knew she was going to go there." I love it. Okay.

If you have the belief, for example, that making money with your art equals selling out, that there's a direct line between making money with your art and selling out, and you don't identify as a sellout, or you don't want to identify as a sellout, then how do you decide what to price your work? How do you decide to sell your art, what do you do with that? How do you untangle that web? Huge topic.

All of this, not just people in Growth Studio, all of you probably are going to recognize this, it always starts with awareness. Ask yourselves, “What do I currently believe about money? What do I currently believe about money as it relates to my art?” Then the next question you're going to want to ask yourself is “Is that belief true? Is it helpful to me?”

You're going to want to separate out the facts from the stories that you tell yourself. To do that, you're going to have to strip out all of your opinion, everything that's subjective, all the superlatives, all the adjectives that can't be proven. For the purposes of this exercise, for the purpose of what we're doing today, I want you to think about it this way: if a hundred different people from all over the world and from all different backgrounds, not just artists were in a room together, what part of your story around money would every single person agree on?

Very little of it. That's what you want to break it down to so that we can understand, “Oh, this is how I'm thinking about money,” because all of the adjectives, all of the things that the other 99 people in the room would not agree with, all of the adjectives, all the superlatives, those are all your thoughts and the stories that you tell yourself about art and making money.

Even if you can find 100 people who would agree with you, it doesn't make it true. Right now, if I look at this room right now, and I say, “How many of you raised your hand? How many of you think making money as an artist is hard?” I could believe that because I could get all of you to agree with me on that.

So then the question is, “What do I create for myself when I believe that making money as an artist is hard? What happens when I do that? What do I experience? How do I show up?” Even if every single person, and I could probably get all of you to agree on this, even if every single one of you agreed with that statement and yet what it creates for me is the opposite of what I want. Is that useful to me that I can get, I can find 100 people who agree with me and I still don't get what I want? All I've done is convince myself that I can't have what I want, I won't get what I want.

This is all just too hard so what do I do with that? If my belief is this is going to be really hard, then when it comes time for me to price my work, to actually say to somebody, “Hey, I have this painting. This is how much it costs, do you want to buy it?” Maybe a little more information, maybe not, but that's basically what we need to do. If we want somebody to buy our work, we have to say, "Here's what I'm offering you. Here's how much it costs. Do you want this?"

You have to give them the opportunity to say yes or no. If I believe that making money is hard, I'm going to make that very, very complicated. I'm going to procrastinate. I'm going to put all these caveats in front of it. I'm going to say all these things about that idea that is going to create that result because that's what I believe. All of my actions are taken from “artists can't make money. It's hard to make money as an artist. I can't expect too much if I am an artist.”

If I have that belief, “I can't expect too much money as an artist,” how will I behave when it comes time to sell my art? Alright, I'm going to guess that a lot of you might have some yeah, buts. Yeah, Antrese, but... Then fill in the blank. Or maybe not even, yeah, it’s just like, “No, I'm not buying any of this.”

Let's take a look at some of our beliefs about art and about making money. Who has something, this is definitely true about art and money? Braley, I see your hand raised, unmute yourself and tell me how to pronounce your name if I'm pronouncing it correctly.

Braley: You got it. I'm trying to change my mindset obviously, but there is a belief that either you need to sell a lot of large originals or only do prints and sell to the people who can afford the art in a smaller sense. Either you're going big or going really small. I don't know if that makes sense, but that's just how I feel about it. I can't do both for some reason. I don't know. It's not easy.

Antrese Wood: Yeah, your thought is “I either have to do big paintings or lots and lots of little ones.”

Braley: Yeah. I guess there are a few routes and maybe that's it. That's how I still feel.

Antrese Wood: Okay, tell me why.

Braley: I think because I've seen other artists be successful that way, and I say success because I don't really know what they make.

Antrese Wood: Yeah, I mean, so even that, think about that. Tell me what you're telling yourself. You're witnessing other artists and what's your thought about that?

Braley: Well, of course, they can do it because they have that style or people want that style or they can do it.

Antrese Wood: They can do it, but you can't [inaudible].

Braley: Yeah. I know.

Antrese Wood: Okay.

Braley: I feel crazy now all of a sudden.

Antrese Wood: No. Number one, for everybody, what you believe about your art and about your capacities and all of that, I believe this, this is so true, you have a really good reason for believing that. It has gotten you to a certain place. It always makes sense. Okay. Tell me again. So let's walk through it one more time. Let me pick that up.

Braley: I am reading what the fine out route versus making your artwork more of a product as it's either the fine art route or the decorative art route, I guess in my mind.

Antrese Wood: Okay, so tell me what you think the difference between that is.

Braley: Rich people want the fine art and the common people want the decorative art I guess is in my mind.

Antrese Wood: Okay, how do you know that?

Braley: Media or I guess what we're told.

Antrese Wood: Okay.

Braley: I don't know, that's what I feel like I'm told anyway from things that I've learned.

Antrese Wood: Yeah, so right there, you can see, it makes sense. All these people have told you this or all these people have shown you this. You've been handed this information and why are you accepting that as “Yeah, that must be true”?

Braley: I shouldn't. I don't know.

Antrese Wood: Maybe, maybe not. We don't know. Maybe it's true.

Braley: I think maybe because I'm still trying to find my voice, my style. So sometimes I'm like, “Oh, well, if I do this and I can't do that or I take myself away from finding the people that want my artness,” I don't know.

Antrese Wood: Yeah. You're not sure and you're like, “Well, maybe they know, maybe this person knows, maybe this person knows,” which that makes sense. You're like, “I don't know. That's what we're taught in school.” “I don't know. Go ask the teacher.” Well, I'm going to reveal my age, “I don't know. Go to the library.” “I don't know. Go Google it.”

So there are these two options. There's original art in your mind. There's original art, and then there's the prints. The prints are for common people. Tell me what does common people mean? Who are they?

Braley: People like me, people who don't make a bunch of money. I don't know.

Antrese Wood: Okay. Yeah. What is a bunch of money?

Braley: I don't know. I guess that's a relative, but I don't know. More than six figures, yeah.

Antrese Wood: More than six figures. Okay. People who make less than six figures buy prints, that's what your brain is telling you.

Braley: Yeah.

Antrese Wood: Okay. If you make more than a hundred, then you buy original art.

Braley: I guess just financial freedom to invest in like, I know art is an investment so in my mind, people making more than a certain amount have more freedom to make investments. I think that's where I am thinking about this.

Antrese Wood: Yeah. Yeah. See, it makes sense, your thought. How do you know that those people who are above 100 are seeing art as an investment?

Braley: I don't. I guess that's just what I would do. Yeah.

Antrese Wood: Okay. That's what you would do. What is your brain thinking about what is the investment that they're making?

Braley: I guess it's not necessarily what I would do, it's just what my brain does to justify a larger purchase, I guess is what I'm saying.

Antrese Wood: Okay, so if you make a larger purchase, then it's an investment in what? What is the investment?

Braley: I mean, art grows in value over time, right? Hopefully. That's how I see that sometimes.

Antrese Wood: Okay, so the underlying thought is when people buy art, it's because they think it will appreciate over time and then what happens when it appreciates over time?

Braley: I don't know. Sorry, I don't have any idea. The thought process is silly, but.

Antrese Wood: It's not silly. Don't do that to yourself. It is not silly. How many people here, just raise your hand, is there any part of what she's saying that you also believe that you're like, “Yeah, that resonates”? Yeah. It's not just you. These are very, very common thoughts. But notice that once we start questioning it, then you can start to see, “Oh, wait a second, that doesn't totally add up.”

The purpose of questioning your thoughts is not—Growth Studio members, you know it's coming—it is not to give yourself a weapon to beat yourself up with. It is not to call yourself silly. It's not to come to the conclusion, “Oh, I'm dumb for thinking that.” That is never ever true.

What you are thinking makes absolute sense. The reason that we do this that we start to question is because we're looking for openings. What else could be true? It's just to get yourself used to, this is for everybody, so everybody who's agreeing with Braley, everybody who has thoughts that you're like, “Now, how do I know that's true?” All we're doing here is just breaking things open just a little bit so that we can see, “What am I believing? Why do I believe this? Is this my own thought that I have here or did I pick it up from my friend's dad, brother, or whatever?”

I'll tell you, guys, a story just really quickly, when was this? I think it was after I think I had quit my job at Disney. I was at my friend's parents' house and this is a friend that I grew up with so I've known her parents and that family my entire life. Just as an aside comment, it was really interesting because they're asking like, “Oh, so how's it going? Are you glad you left Disney? What are you doing now?” and of course, a little bit of concern, “Are you okay? You just quit your job.”

At one point, my friend's dad says, and very sincerely, he looked at me and he said, “So at what point do you just decide that you're not talented enough to make it and then go and get a real job?” Super, super sincerely says, I know I love all of you. He’s an economist. He comes from a very different place. I don't think that there's original art in their house.

Yet, Braley, by the way, they're very, very wealthy. There's not one piece of original art in their house. If I had allowed that to resonate, if I thought to myself like, “Oh, he must be right, I'm going to take that thought on,” Savvy Painter would not exist and I would be working somewhere else. I don't know where but I would have a job somewhere and this whole conversation would not be happening and the podcast would not exist.

This is why we break things open. The purpose of this is really to just start thinking, okay, when I say to myself, “These people buy prints and these people buy original art,” start to question that, “Is that true and what am I doing in response to that?” Because now you've given yourself a very black-and-white equation.

I either have to make prints or I have to paint really big. Let's think about how we phrase things, “Oh, well, the common people like me buy prints, and then these other people buy the big original paintings.” If that's what you truly believe, how does that impact what happens when you're in your studio? How does that impact when you're standing in front of a giant canvas? “I can only sell this to rich people,” very limiting in what you're thinking about and also what your thought process is as you're creating it.

The easiest thing to go to is have you all heard of, I always forget their name, there's a couple who are very famous for having an enormous art collection. They lived in New York City. I remember the husband was a postal worker and the wife, I believe, was a teacher. I don't think they were considered rich, yet they had one of the most well-respected, largest art collections. That's one thing.

The other thing is we as artists are believing this story that people buy art as an investment. Some people do. That is true. Most people don't. Most people have very different reasons for buying the art. That couple that I just mentioned, the work that they created, that collection they created was because they genuinely loved the work that they were buying.

They had a genuine interest in art and they didn't buy it because they thought it was going to be worth millions of dollars later on. If you believe that the only people that are going to buy your art are people who are making an investment because they think that your art is going to be worth a lot of money in the future, you got to ask yourself what does that do to your thought process when you're creating the art? What does that belief, how does that belief impact what you create and how you create it? What's coming up for you right now, Braley?

Braley: Fear in the studio of not creating artwork that's good enough and changing my style to make something that I think other people would want instead of what's inside of me.

Antrese Wood: Yeah. Let's just catch that tale because we want to take these thoughts, we want to unpack them. I need to figure out what people like so that I can make art that they will buy. So many of us. Let's just play the logic game with that question. What does it do to you, number one? What does it do to you as you're creating? Everybody, think about that.

But the other thing is let's just look at it, take a different tack with it. How do you know what everybody's going to like? Who are we talking about and how do we know? That thought sets us up for an impossible creation. It's impossible to answer that question.

So let's go back to why do people buy art? People buy art because of how they think it will make them feel, because of how they want it to feel, because yes, somebody mentioned in the chat, they buy art because it reminds them of a place, but it reminding them of a place is because they have a memory, they have an emotion about that place and seeing the artwork brings that emotion to them.

People buy art because of how they think it will make them feel. If that's the case, then our job really is just to show them, to educate them, like, “Okay, so you want to buy this piece of art,” think about how we talk about selling our art. We talk about selling our art a lot like, “I'm just going to put this up and I'm going to put the price there and then I'm just going to wait and hope somebody buys it. I’m just going to put it up and hope somebody finds it and there it is.”

Just think of anything that you have recently bought, anything, the shirt you're wearing, your iPhone, anything like that, and if you walked in there, let's talk about your phone, if you walked into the store, and I'll just go with an iPhone, if you went and you were to buy an iPhone and you walk into Apple and you walk in and they're all hiding in the corner, “Oh, I don't want to bother that person that just came in.” “Sheila just walked in. Better just let her be. I don't want to bother her.”

She was like, “I want to buy a phone. I don't know which one I want. I don't know which one is good.” Then you go over and you find the people and you're like, “Hey, so I'm here to buy a phone.” Oh, good. Well, they're all up there on the wall. Let me know. I would leave. Or, “Yeah, do I have this phone here? But this part right here, it's not really that great. The colors aren't exactly what I wanted them to be. But normally I'll give you 20% off.”

I don't really believe you want to buy this. I'm just going to give you 20% right off the bat. Just consider how we think about and how we present the work when we believe these things about the art. This is why we start questioning these beliefs. You can see how we are in our own heads when we are trying to sell people art.

Braley, what you're talking about, when you're trying to figure out, “Should it be prints or should it be large pieces of art?” The thought error in that is, and we all do this, is we're thinking of people buying the art almost in the same way for the reasons that we create it, and we're what I call it like we're in their wallets.

We're thinking that we know how they spend their money. We're assuming they spend their money like we do. We're also assuming that they buy art for the same reasons that we make it and how we look at it. Artists look at art very differently and we look at our own art very differently.

You're noticing, you're looking at your art and you're thinking of you creating that art and you're thinking of what you think of that artwork. The person who's looking, who's going to buy it, isn't looking at it and thinking like, “Oh, that brush stroke right there. Ooh, why did they put that mark right there?”

They're not thinking that. They're thinking, “Oh my gosh, this totally reminds me of that time when I was in Hawaii, or that café that I used to go to.” Or, “That figure reminds me of my daughter and that makes me feel this way.” That's what they're thinking about. They're not looking at it and wondering where you went to school or who taught you how to do that or how long you spent on it.

When you're thinking of prints versus large pieces, you're trying to guess how they're spending their money and what they might want. But if you're thinking along the lines of, “What is the art? What do I want to say? What is the best way for me to say it? What is the impact I want to have? What do I want to say? What might be the value of my art to the person who buys it?”

When they put that art on their wall, it's not because it's a piece of paper or a piece of canvas. It's because of the relationship that they have with you, the relationship that they have with the subject, and how that makes them feel. When you're in that mode of like, “Should it be this or should it be that,” what you're thinking about, you're in your imagination of what that other person is going to be thinking and doing, and you've left them alone. You're not with your art and you're not with the collector. You're in your own head spinning. You're in your own stories. So, Braley, how are you feeling now?

Braley: Good. I went back to something that you said the other day, the more art you create, you'll find your people.

Antrese Wood: Yeah.

Braley: Yeah. I think that has something to do with it too, but good. Much better. It's very scary talking to everyone though.

Antrese Wood: I bet. I know. You're so brave to do it. Did you see how many people were nodding their heads? Did you notice that?

Braley: Okay. Yeah. Right. We have somebody else go.

Antrese Wood: Right. What you brought up, number one, so many people were nodding their heads. Number two, it is so relevant to everything. It is so relevant. It's so like, look at somebody saying it's so eye-opening. All of this is just how we think about our art, and how we think about money.

For everybody, just kind of think about what are the thoughts that you have about money that are impacting how you present your work. What are your thoughts about money that are impacting how you might even create your work? The whole question of prints versus original artwork is something that you decide for yourself based on what you want with your artwork, not because you think it's going to sell more.

Here's the thing, it's not easier to sell something just because you think it's less money. The reason people are going to buy it is still the same. If you all think about one of the major purchases that you made, something that you really, really wanted, a major purchase that you made, of course, you're going to think about it and of course, your budget is going to be a consideration, but when you really, really wanted something or when you really, really needed something you found a way to get it and it was that particular thing that you wanted. What other questions do we have here? Morgan, yes, sorry I didn't see you.

Morgan: Started off [inaudible] I'm not a huge audience for it or maybe I wasn't reaching the right people because I wasn't selling anything and I wasn't getting a lot of interest. I'm like, “Okay, well, I have to switch gears here.” Because it was important for me to make some money off of what I was doing just because of the relationship I have with work and because I can't work. This is my job opportunity, I guess. I switched to pet portraits which there's a lot more interest in because it's something very personal to people.

But at the same time, I have a hard time with the money aspect of it because even though it's so personal and it's so directed toward someone who it's going to mean a lot for, it's a divide because so many people do this. It's like a fraud factor. Almost like selling snake oil. That's almost what I feel like. Is this good enough for whatever I'm charging?

I instantly undersell myself. The last thing I sold in 8 x 10 for, I actually have it for $60. I hovered them 20% off, also. The cell phone that you were saying really resonated.

Antrese Wood: Okay. There are a couple of different ways that we can tackle this. Tell me why $60. Why do you think $60 is the price for that?

Morgan: It feels like way not enough. Even the person who I sold it to, they're like, “Don't undersell yourself.” But it feels like if I were to charge more than that, I'm afraid there would be a sudden lack of interest because somebody out there is going to do it similarly, probably for cheaper. Feels like a rat race kind of thing.

Antrese Wood: Okay. Yeah, so let's just notice, just be aware of that, that the thought is that if I don't price my work at this number, whatever that number is, then somebody else is going to come in and take my customer.

Morgan: Yeah.

Antrese Wood: Okay. Notice what that thought does for you. How does that make you feel?

Morgan: Not good. Like I'm not a competitive person at all. I've never had that. It's like, “I'll lie down, you do it.”

Antrese Wood: Right.

Morgan: It's hard. It's hard.

Antrese Wood: Yeah. If that's the thought and then the feeling that comes with it is again, this series of thoughts that “I'm not a competitive person, I would tend to just lie down,” what you do with that is then you drop your prices. What happens to your work with that whole idea, the work itself?

Morgan: Not really sure. Maybe I value it less myself, anything.

Antrese Wood: Because you're like, “Hey, it's 60 bucks and I'll give you 20% off.”

Morgan: Yeah, maybe I wouldn't be putting my all into it, say if it was a $300 piece, I would probably be burning them in night oil.

Antrese Wood: Yeah. That makes total sense, too. Think about this. Everyone, think about this. If you really believe, number one, I have to sell at this price or something bad's going to happen, and I resent having to sell my work at this price. I feel like I'm doing something that's not really me. It feels like a snake oil salesman.

Morgan: Yeah.

Antrese Wood: Then you've got to ask yourself, “Is this where I want to be creating my--” Just notice all these thoughts. My thought about money is, “They won't buy the art at this price. Therefore I have to make all these concessions I don't like.” Notice the cognitive dissonance that comes up and what that creates for you.

You can still paint pet portraits with completely different thought processes about it if you want to. If you want to, like you said, you can choose to think, “What I'm doing is giving these pet owners this lasting connection to this animal that they deeply love.” If you believe that about your work, just out of curiosity, $60 and 20% off, how does that land?

Morgan: Not well. I guess, what you said earlier about feeling like you're taking from someone because we've never been well off at all, so definitely I don't feel how everybody was saying, “$100,000,” could not even, yeah. I think it's really important for me. I've been a big animal person so I think it's important for people to say if they want art of their animal, to have art of their animal and to be able to get it, that's important too, but also finding that balance.

Antrese Wood: Yeah. Just notice too, your reaction when you saw $100,000. We didn't have a lot of money growing up so that's like, “Oh.”

Morgan: Yeah.

Antrese Wood: Yeah. If that's your thought around a number, there are a lot of assumptions that get built into that. “I'm not the person that can do that. That's not for me,” those are some of the thoughts that come around that when you were brought up in this environment and then you're looking at this environment, oftentimes the thought process is, “This isn't for me.”

Morgan: Yeah.

Antrese Wood: Notice that and what “This isn't for me” creates for you and consider other options, consider other questions. The underlying assumption is like, okay, if you were and I don't know, and it kind of doesn't matter too much. I'll use myself, for example, because I don't care. I know my mom, I think her salary was $30,000. If I had this thought process that I was raised by a single mom, with six kids, we had this experience with money growing up. Therefore, all of this is not available to me. I can't go from here to here. Even though you can look around, there are probably hundreds of people who probably had less than that and still managed to do it. What that does for me is it tells me that this is possible. It's in the realm of possibility. People have done it.

Now the question is, “Why not me?” In an empowering way, you can ask that question in a couple of different ways. You can ask, “Why is it me?” Or you can be like, “Why not me?” When we're asking ourselves the question that way, then we can start to consider, “What's in the way? What is in the way of me charging instead of $60 for the cap portrait, $120?” What comes up for you, if I say to you, “You know what, Morgan, tomorrow, you're going to sell that painting for $120.” What thought comes up?

Morgan: Yeah.

Antrese Wood: Why is that scary?

Morgan: Nervousness, anxiety, fear.

Antrese Wood: Okay. What are you telling yourself that's creating that? What's the story?

Morgan: I don’t know. I’m feeling like I'm not good enough to sell my art for that price, I guess.

Antrese Wood: Okay. Who decides that?

Morgan: Okay, these questions are getting--I do.

Antrese Wood: Right, so just notice that, for everybody, notice when you're deciding ahead of time that the answer is no. You're deciding for the collector that the answer is no. Now, some thoughts might be, “Well, they choose to buy or not buy. I can't decide for them.”

That's true. We don't decide for them, but we have a lot more influence than you give yourself credit for. Again, the Apple Store scenario. I'll say this really, really simply, you have to sell yourself first on the value of your painting before you can sell it to somebody else. If you don't believe, somebody do the math for me with 20% off of $60, that's $12 off so $48?

Morgan: Really bad at math.

Antrese Wood: Okay, I think it's somewhere in that range. Okay, so $48. Here's this painting for $48. Your collector is even saying, “Are you sure?” For everybody, once you sell yourself on the value of your own painting, it will be so much easier for you to make the offer to somebody else with conviction.

I have my earbuds here. I think these are the pro version. I think $250 is the going rate for these guys right here. If I went into Apple and I'm like, “Okay, I think I want the pro version because I do want the noise cancellation. I've got a lot of noise here. I want that.” They're like, “Okay, yes, 250 bucks.” No hesitation, no like, “Hmm.” If I said to them, “250 bucks, why? Why would I pay $250 for that?” What do you think they would say, Morgan?

Morgan: Yeah. I get what you're saying. I do. It's hard, it's hard. It's a big company too, even. As a single artist, you're just selling yourself. Like you said, selling yourself.

Antrese Wood: Yeah. Just play with these ideas. You're not selling them your time. You're not selling them the value of the pigments that you used. You're not selling them the cost of the canvas. You're selling them the memory of this part of their family that they love.

This is the challenge that we have. Number one, we have all these thoughts and ideas about money and we bring that into our conversations about selling our art. That's one thing. The other thing that we tend to bring in is our thoughts about who we are as a painter and whether or not we're good enough.

We bring all this stuff and we plop it into the lap of our collector and we're like, “Here, you deal with us.” I love this painting. So when you're in that phase, then you have to really like, “This is why I create the art. This is what I love about art. This is what it means.”

At that moment, as artists, it's not about us as artists anymore. It's about us when we create the work and then when we go to sell it, it's all about the collector. Collectors are not these unicorns out there. They are people just like you and me. They are people who love art because of the same reasons that we do. They think that you are amazing, Morgan because you can create this image of their cat that is gorgeous.

They're looking at it. They're just thinking, “Oh, my God, I love my cat so much. Yeah, look at how she got that little--” That's worth more than 60 bucks to a lot of people. You can sell it for $60 if you want to. We always have that option. But love the reason that you sell it for that price. But this is for everybody, whatever your price is, love the reason that you sell it for that price.

Understand what it is that you're selling. What is the value of the art to your collector? It's very different than the value to you. Because to me, I'm looking at it and I'm thinking about like, “Oh, yeah, this brushstroke and this and that.” We look at our art and we think of our process and what was happening while we were creating, what we were feeling when we were creating it.

The people who look at our art, they're having their own experience. We have to let them have that experience. Play with those ideas. Really everybody considers this, all of these ideas that we have about money come into play when we say in whatever way, shape, or form that we do, whether it's on our website in person or at a gallery when we say, “Here's this thing that I made, would you like to buy it?” if you want to change the way you feel about selling your art and about putting a price on it and saying, “This painting is worth $120,” this is what we're doing. We're saying to you, “I have this piece of artwork, and you have these pieces of paper, do you want to trade?”

Then they get to decide, “Do I want that piece of artwork more than I want those pieces of paper or those zeros and ones on the computer screen? Do I want that piece of artwork more than I want those numbers? That piece of artwork, every day that I see it, it's going to make me feel this. I'm going to look at it and I'm going to have peace. I'm going to have just this joy in my life or I'm going to feel this sense of serenity or I'm going to remember what it's like to be in this place that I love so much, or I can have these numbers in my bank account, or I can have these pieces of paper.”

We make it mean so much more, and that so much more is all of our thoughts about money and what we make it mean. When we're separating fact from fiction, also remember that really all we're talking about, I keep saying pieces of paper but nowadays, it really is pixels on a screen that form a number.

When you further consider that we're not even talking about pieces of paper anymore and even if we were those pieces of paper are not tied to physical gold in a bank anymore, it's all made up at this point, we as a society have just decided that we all agree that this is the value that this piece of paper has or that the idea of that piece of paper has.

Now as artists, we're saying, “I'm going to exchange this emotion, this thing that you get to look at every single day and you get to feel a certain way for those digits in the bank. Are you in?” That's what it is. Everything else is the story that we tell. You all can keep the stories that you tell if you want them. It's totally fine.

Some of them are probably useful and it's okay, seriously. But the ones that don't create what you want, the ones that are getting in your way, the ones that are causing you anxiety and causing you to fear, really closely unpack those, take a look at those, ask a lot of questions about those stories that you're telling yourself.

Is there a different story or an alternative story that might serve you better? Are you taking somebody's money or are you giving them a piece of joy in their home? Even that idea of, “Are you taking somebody's money?” feels like we're robbing them. Just that language, “I'm taking your money.”

Actually, what I like to think now that I think about it is I'm not taking anybody's money, I'm giving you this experience. Here's why it's worth so much more than those digits in the bank account. Think of all of the things that we're telling ourselves that make those digits in the bank account so big, so much emotion around it, so much drama that we create around those digits in the bank account that aren't even real.

If we're going to invent stories, let's make them good. Here's the thing, whatever it is that you want to believe about money, whatever it is that serves you, think about it that way. What are the thoughts and beliefs that serve you and what are the thoughts and beliefs that are pulling you down?

Those are all the things that are in between you and creating the work and the life that you want to create. If you're afraid of what other people will say, what they're going to think about you, what your painting is worth, any of that, that's what you want to just start questioning. Why am I thinking this and do I like my reasons for it?

There's always another way that you can think about it and we get to choose that. What I'm hoping that you get out of this is just a little bit of doubt about your thoughts of money, not about your art, not about yourself, about, “Why am I thinking this? Is it true? Do I want to keep it?”

Because to me one of the thoughts that I mentioned at the beginning that I was brought up with that is that money corrupts. There are all these thoughts we have that demonize money. What I've noticed and as I unpack that, I just realized that, money is more like alcohol in the sense that it just makes you more of who you are.

If you were a super kind and generous person, then the more money you have, the more you're going to find ways to be kind and generous. To me, I would prefer it if more artists were more well-resourced because another belief that I have is that the more wealthy and the more resourced artists are, our world becomes better.

What I know about artists is they tend to have—and I'm stereotyping and I'm generalizing and I totally admit that and I'm fine with it—but I think artists are more empathetic. I think they tend to be more thoughtful around other people and I would prefer if more resources and more wealth went to those people than the sort of people that you really don't want to have any more alcohol or money, just that's enough.

That's my thought around it. That's what I have for you all today. Tomorrow, we're going to talk about perfectionism. I will see all of you hopefully tomorrow. Thank you so much for being here. See you all soon, everybody. Ciao, ciao.

This was a fun episode to record. I hope you enjoyed listening to it. If you want to know more about Growth Studio or you are ready to join now, it is magic for getting rid of pricing anxiety and getting paid full value for your incredible work. Just head on over to savvypainter.com/join. We would love to see you there. Again, that's savvypainter.com/join. Either way, I'll see you back here on the Savvy Painter Podcast next week, talk soon.

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